Because it feels like an important distinction

[tcepsa]

Was talking with a friend today about language and translation, and the trickiness that comes with it, because you've got both what the individual words mean, and then what the speaker actually means when they say something. For example, I can say that the phrase "chotto mate" in Japanese means "wait a sec" in English. But it doesn't actually mean "wait a sec." What it really means is the same thing that a person means when they say "wait a sec."

Perhaps this is more of an English-specific problem. The problem is that we often don't mean what we say--by which I mean that what we say can have several different meanings, the literal one of which is often not the one that we mean.

~grin~ Or maybe this is just me being mean-spirited...

Comments

[grum]

Idioms are always a problem in translation. Cultural specific references travel down the generations. And the context required is often lacking in non-native speakers.

Does a person learning the English language today know that a fag was a cigarette, that a faggot was a bundle of wood for burning? Does it matter in current usage? Has the term been claimed sufficiently that the historical uses aren't relevant?

Why do we call them "dust bunnies"? Why do we say there's a man in the moon when the chinese see a rabbit? Does that distinction affect our worldview in any particular way?

What does gesundheit actually mean? Does it matter that we say bless you in response to a sneeze regardless of whether we think a blessing is conveyed? Does it matter that Russians say "na zdorovye" or "to your health" (sorry if I'm wrong on the translation, I know the transliteration is hideous)? Or, in all these cases, is it just a salutation, an acknlowdgement, devoid of actual meeting?

Why is a handbasket the traditional mode of tranport to hell?

[museclio]

Idioms are always hard. You have to decide between literal meaning and functional meaning.

Literally translating pendejo is silly, it effectivly means asshole.

A literal translation of puta is whore... a functional transliteration is almost impossible, as there is no way to convey the clurtural meaning of calling a woman a whore in a culture where it not only reflects on her but on her family, and has a much stronger feel, but I'd use something like cunt to convey the insultingness.

[reedrover]

It's certainly not English-specific. The English-specific problem is how many words we have and how often they change depending on cultural context as well as historical context.

Take the "n-word" debate if you want an example of both. What clique or social crowd a person is in, as well as that person's intended object, determine both the inflection of the word (it's intended meaning) and its reception. In historical context, it's even more complicated...

tangentially...

[nminusone.livejournal.com]

It's not even limited to idioms; the way you model many concepts in Japanese is quite different from English, far more so than the difference betweeen say Spanish and English. The seeming passivity of things like suki, wakaru and the oft-used -te form, the relatively fine gradiations of kudasaru and kureru, and so forth.

And it may be a trite or overused example, but I still find the difference between "gambatte" and "good luck" to speak volumes about the respective cultures.